SPS Polyp Extension Questions

helitaiwan963 said:
Dansreef: How long have you been running that MP40? Nutreint and or Reef crest?

I just bought a mp40w to test poidog and other's suggestion on random flow... And it's been day 3 and i can see more polyp extention out of my sps. not where i'd like them to be, but it's looking better every day...
Click to expand...

I have been running an MP40 since I started the tank. I wish I had one on my other tank. I have a box of Koralias that are junk.... If you put them on a wave maker...they all end up running backwards at some point. With all the ones I have collected over the years I could have easily had a couple of MP40s....

With the MP40 I have tons of flow.... I started running reef crest just about a week or so ago. I liked the Nutrient Export....and the waves it created. But it appears the tank likes the reefcrest mode. I may add another at a later date. The advantage is having them synch up....but also you can turn them down a bit and the noise they make is not as noticeable.
 
Look what a custom triangular led fixture looks like over a corner tank. Works off Apex too ;-)
IMG_8033.jpg
 
Any updates Dansreef on your PE? My Mp40 has been running reefcrest for over 2 weeks now and I just notice a LITTLE improvement on PE...

I bought a mini colony from MCF this past weekend and the PE was awesome and what i see everyones tank like... Fully extended polyps... it was an acro... But now 4 days later... It's just like every other SPS in my tank that's not a birdsnest :(

Could their be something else other than Random flow? cuz that i have now...
 
If you have already looked into everything else, have you tried any type of carbon dosing?
Could just be high phosphates/nitrates.

Or any additives designed for pe like elos omega/proskimmer or any similar zeovit additives?
Should note that you should probably not use these unless you are sure you are at least close to a low nutrient system.

You can do both. Once you get the phos/nitrate levels down to practically 0, you start adding aminoacids/food for the corals (not necessarily zooplankton, but consumable liquid 'bacteria') to make up for the lack of neutrients in the water. You get healthy sps with tons of pe.
 
My system is very low nutrient already. nitrates/phosphates are all at zero. most peoples chaeto grow fast... but it takes me WEEKS for me to even notice any growth after trimming... I'm overskimming by a ton as well. Carbon reactor running ROX carbon. I'm not currently dosing anything of sorts... Just 10-15% water changes every sunday... Using Coralife Marine Salt mix. RODI water. So with that last paragraph, are you saying my water has too little nutrients? I've been wanting to start feeding coral more stuff rather than just what they catch in the water. Every week I'll feed phyto, daphnias, mysis, cylcopleeze (sp?) and spot feed my coral. I"ll shut off my circulation pumps and only leave the return pump on and spot feed... But I never know if the SPS are eating cuz their polyps aren't out other than the birdsnests I have. Those I can see like actually catch mysis.

When I do my water change this weekend, i'll actually write down my parameters and post them to see if anything can be raised or lowered, but last I checked, everything was in the "acceptable" range...

What always makes me wonder is, whenever I get a new coral, the PE is always like it's supposed to be, but 2-3 days later it'll be next to nothing... I just don't understand it. Color and growth are not affected at all, everything grows/encrusts at a good rate...

Lighting, i'm running 2x250w Reef Optix iii pendants with phenoix 14k bulbs. They're sitting about 7" off the surface of the water. Also have 2x110w Super actinic VHO's for supplemental lighting... not sure if this would have anything to do with the tank.

-Eric
 
All those foods are fine, but I'm talking about more 'bacteria' sized food. Food you can't actually see.
SPS are capable of eating larger pieces such as zooplankton and cyclopeeze. I feed these semiregularly, and my sps catch them fairly often.
However, I rely on more liquid based foods for pe. Which I dose every day. If you buy a quality concentrated version, you only have to add 1 drop for every 20-25 gallons which making feeding easy. Plus you dont have to spot feed or turn down powerheads.

SPS do not directly eat phytoplankton. The phytoplankton feeds the zooplankton in the tank and the sps eat the zooplankton. In theory at least, pretty sure noones ever witnessed this, but it makes sense. I do not rely on phyto since there are better additives for sps food.

You have to add a liquid based amino/omega acids or loaded bacteria first to get the crazy pe, then add the coral food (which can range from microscopic/liquid, all the way to zooplankton sized).

Figured I'd share a frag eating cyclopeeze. :p
View attachment 4272
 
Grr... jealous... I've been seeking good PE forever!

and these amino foods you talk of... is this something I need to keep my tank full of so the SPS always have full PE to try and eat these foods? Or with these bactrial foods, i will only see PE on the sps when i spot feed them?

In almost all the SPS tanks i've seen, good PE is always there when the lights are on...


-eric
 
Thats the thing, you feed every day, or twice a day. If you miss a day, nothing negative will happen. After a month of dosing, you can miss days and your sps will never lose their great pe (unless you stop dosing for a week or more).

- At first you notice pe only at night.
- You start dosing.
- You start to notice more pe only immediately after feeding.
- After a week or two of dosing, you notice more and more pe for longer periods of time.
- Once your system can handle a second dose, you start dosing twice a day. Once at night right after lights out, once in the morning right before lights on (or one dose during the day, but recommended in dark tank for sps to get full benefit since their pe is still going to be better at night).
-After a few more weeks you notice that the pe from feeding time never goes away. Your corals always have amazing pe because they always have food in the water or are expecting to be fed.


And its easy to feed some of these supplements. They come with a dropper in the cap, you dont even need to mess around with finding a pipet. You just add 1 drop per 20-25g and call it a day.
 
Really? So to feed these supplements, you don't need to turn off all your pumps or anything? hmm... please recommend me something good I can start dosing! This sounds like what I may be missing... I don't really dose or feed my corals anything special... So maybe they don't expect any food out during the day... IDK, if that's what everyone does for their sps, then I'm not doing it and maybe this is why i don't have PE...
 
You dont have to turn anything off, but it is recommended to turn off your return or skimmer for 30 minutes. Keep the powerheads on, and dont turn them down as you still need good flow. The supplements will definitely get taken out by a skimmer/gac, this is the only reason to turn off the return for 30min. Personally, I do not have the time, so I never turn off my return. I just add an extra drop or two to compensate. :p I can turn my skimmer off/on from my phone via Apex, so sometimes I turn the skimmer off, but 75% of the time I leave everything on. I notice great results even with never turning a single thing off, its just not the most efficient way, and you lose some of the supplements. Which I have found that even though the skimmer/gac will take some out (in theory), its so miniscule that leaving everything on does not matter.

A good start for a non carbon dosing tank is dosing Elos Omega and Elos Pro Skimmer. It is recommended you buy both for best results. Both are clear liquds, not meaty food.
About an hour after lights out, you dose Omega, wait 15-30 min, then dose Pro Skimmer (which is the actual food). If you turn off your return you can turn it back on after 30min.
Most of these are highly concentrated so be careful not to overdose or start too fast. Both of them have a recommended 1 drop per 25 gallons directly into a high flow area of the display. After 2-3 weeks you can do this same dose twice a day. The more spread out (10-12 hours or so) the dosing the better.
 
Wow... those are a LOT more expensive than I was thinking... How long does a bottle usually last?

And since these aren't meaty foods, what happens if I do overfeed?
 
There is also Zeovit AAHC (Amino Acids), and Coral Vital. Which are similar products. There are also Zeofood and Zeo Xtra, which both aid in pe. Both Zeo and Elos have high reviews, but it is recommended having a complete ulns when using the Zeovit versions.
The Elos version you just have to have a mostly-ulns.

I have been dosing Elos for a while with great success, but I am not trying out the Zeovit versions since I am also going to be starting B-Balance and Xtra. Figured might as well go all zeo.
 
Yes, no version of these are cheap. :D

For the zeo versions:
Coral Vitalizer
Intended use: Coral food
Positive results: Coral growth, PE
OD Symptoms: Brown film

Amino Acid HC
Intended use: Coral food
Positive results: Growth, general color, PE
OD Symptoms: Brown & light green film, darkening



Its really hard to overdose, since its only 1 drop per 20-25g. I guess if someone misread and thought 1mL per 20g... Dont think its ever happened.
Just start out slow at around 1 drop per 35 gallons. If you see anything out of the ordinary, stop and figure it out before continuing.
I do not think you can lose any corals dosing these, unless maybe you dosed the whole bottle... Worst that can happen is you get bacterial film/algae in which case you just stop for a few days and drop the dose. With extreme overdosing your corals may become browner/darker. Again, its really hard to overdose... You would be adding 3 drops into your 75, and the dropper only holds 10 drops. Kinda hard to mess up. :p
 
They help, but they arent absolutely needed.

I just started dosing the zeo a couple days ago, so far results are comparable, but its too early to tell. I am still dosing the Elos though at 1/2 dose Elos, 1/2 Zeo for now.

If it were me and you have decided on Zeo, I would get all 3. Every bit helps!

Personally I would start out with the Elos versions though. The zeovit ones are meant to be used in a ulns carbon dosed tank with other zeo suplpements.

I actually have 6 different zeo supplements I am now using.
Zeobak
B-Balance
Xtra
Amino
Vita
Sponge power

I carbon dose twice a day. It took me over a month just to get the carbon dosing amount good enough to start adding these supplements. I was always running 0 phos 0 nitrate, but chaeto was still growing slowly. A carbon dosed tank is really different from one that is not dosed (even with 0 phos / 0 nitrate), which I have found out.
 
man... that's a lot of dough to "experiement" i will probably pickup the amino one first after i purchase my new bulbs this week and start dosing that to see if I see any improvement.
 
You may not notice much of an improvement with just amino.
I would really just get the Elos pair and call it a day.

If I didn't experiment I would never know if its worth it or not.
Based on all the reviews I believe it was worth a try.
Only thing is, if I get great results, how would I know which one caused them! lol
 
Yea... I'm gonna try them, but i don't think i have the funds to do it for another week or so... I'm gonna pick up those rainbow and WOW palys from Mai and new MH bulbs this week... Can't resist eye candy... lol, then stand and canopy and 20L for frag tank. After that, i'll probably take the plunge and make the order for the Elos pair...
 
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