LFS vs Online retailers

O

OldTownJoe

New member
It's worth mentioning that this hobby would die without brick & mortar stores bringing in new hobbyists.

It's frustrating as all hell when people come in to our store asking questions about items they purchased online, with absolutely no intention of making a purchase at our store.

And then there are all the customers who've bought dragonets from LiveAquaria and watched them die in their NanoCubes. Or aggressive fish like damsels or Pseudocheilinus wrasses that have terrorized their tanks. We regularly steer customers from making bad descisions; LiveAquaria has no qualms about selling you that miniatus grouper for your 10 gallon.

My favorite is the customers who tell me they buy all their dry goods online to save a few bucks but will only buy livestock from our store. We appreciate the compliment (yes, we do put a lot of effort into keeping our fish healthy, thank you), but our store wouldn't exist without dry goods sales.

End of rant. Supports your LFS people.
 
Joe - I agree with you and support the LFS when I can... some much more than others. However, some LFS are absurdly over priced so buying on line is a better alternative for some. I support stores that are competitively priced and have knowledgeable employees that care about this hobby.

For example, Old Town had a sharknose goby for $45 a few weeks ago, when they are $15 elsewhere. Old Orchard sells dry goods 2 - 4x's the cost they would be online. So, when you're making multiple fish/stock purchases it adds up quick and easily offsets the cost of shipping (if any).
 
If I'm not mistaken, Foster and Smith also have a brick and mortar store in WI. I appreciate your position but any business has that dilemma of having to provide info whether a customer is interested in buying or not. As for LFS, there are too many bad ones for the few good ones.
 
poidog said:
Joe - Old Town had a sharknose goby for $45 a few weeks ago, when they are $15 elsewhere.
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There are always going to be fish that vary in price (sometimes drastically, like that goby) based on what we pay wholesale. I agree with you about shopping around for the best price (and healthiest, most ethically-collected fish). Bear in mind no two specimens are the same... that flame angel at PetCo is probably not as well-cared for as the ones swimming in our tanks for $5-10 more.

My beef with online stores like F&S is how they parasitize off the work stores like mine do. F&S wouldn't exist without quality stores bringing new hobbyists in and keeping them in by providing quality livestock and service. I find it ridiculous when customers who buy online expect the same quality service from us without patronizing our store. Free advice comes from the forums, our professional advice comes with the caveat that we expect you to buy from us on occasion... otherwise we can't exist to give that advice in the first place.

And that's not to mention the ethics of online stores selling live animals without any idea of whether they might be cared for properly. I suppose they have no problem with washing their hands of the responsibility for the animals safety and well-being by giving a small blurb about it or perhaps tagging it as "expert only". They chose to put all the responsibility onto the buyer whilst reaping all the profits... and stores like mine get to handle all the questions (usually over the phone) when things go wrong. Everybody in the supply chain, from collector to retailer to consumer, has a responsibility to ensure that animal gets the care it requires.

PS. I think our sharknose was wild-collected, not ORA bred.
 
I think this is starting to get away from the original post. I have had good experiences with F&S and this is why I posted. If you have had a bad experience with them or any other fish store then this is the correct forum topic. If you're just griping about online stores in general, you should start another thread. Just my opinion.
 
poidog said:
lets keep this thread on topic as a review of DFS. Thanks :)
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I've actually heard good things about the quality of livestock from LA and their customer service, and I'm sure F&S is the bees knees.

I do feel that any discussion of online vendors should include a discussion of their impact on the health of the hobby as a whole and especially on the well-being of the animals involved. Take for instance the guy who posted today about his 5 moorish idols that he (I assume) bought online for a 400g FOWLR. 2 DOA, other three may or may not be eating anything. Lets see if any of those are still alive in a year. (godspeed little Zanclus!)

I'll refrain from further thread hijacking, as I have laundry to do. Cheers guys.
 
"I do feel that any discussion of online vendors should include a discussion of their impact on the health of the hobby as a whole and especially on the well-being of the animals involved."

I agree. There is a "Local Fish Store" section of this forum for that thread. :)
 
OldTownJoe said:
It's worth mentioning that this hobby would die without brick & mortar stores bringing in new hobbyists.

It's frustrating as all hell when people come in to our store asking questions about items they purchased online, with absolutely no intention of making a purchase at our store.

And then there are all the customers who've bought dragonets from LiveAquaria and watched them die in their NanoCubes. Or aggressive fish like damsels or Pseudocheilinus wrasses that have terrorized their tanks. We regularly steer customers from making bad descisions; LiveAquaria has no qualms about selling you that miniatus grouper for your 10 gallon.

My favorite is the customers who tell me they buy all their dry goods online to save a few bucks but will only buy livestock from our store. We appreciate the compliment (yes, we do put a lot of effort into keeping our fish healthy, thank you), but our store wouldn't exist without dry goods sales.

End of rant. Supports your LFS people.
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OldTownJoe said:
There are always going to be fish that vary in price (sometimes drastically, like that goby) based on what we pay wholesale. I agree with you about shopping around for the best price (and healthiest, most ethically-collected fish). Bear in mind no two specimens are the same... that flame angel at PetCo is probably not as well-cared for as the ones swimming in our tanks for $5-10 more.

My beef with online stores like F&S is how they parasitize off the work stores like mine do. F&S wouldn't exist without quality stores bringing new hobbyists in and keeping them in by providing quality livestock and service. I find it ridiculous when customers who buy online expect the same quality service from us without patronizing our store. Free advice comes from the forums, our professional advice comes with the caveat that we expect you to buy from us on occasion... otherwise we can't exist to give that advice in the first place.

And that's not to mention the ethics of online stores selling live animals without any idea of whether they might be cared for properly. I suppose they have no problem with washing their hands of the responsibility for the animals safety and well-being by giving a small blurb about it or perhaps tagging it as "expert only". They chose to put all the responsibility onto the buyer whilst reaping all the profits... and stores like mine get to handle all the questions (usually over the phone) when things go wrong. Everybody in the supply chain, from collector to retailer to consumer, has a responsibility to ensure that animal gets the care it requires.

PS. I think our sharknose was wild-collected, not ORA bred.
Click to expand...

OldTownJoe said:
I've actually heard good things about the quality of livestock from LA and their customer service, and I'm sure F&S is the bees knees.

I do feel that any discussion of online vendors should include a discussion of their impact on the health of the hobby as a whole and especially on the well-being of the animals involved. Take for instance the guy who posted today about his 5 moorish idols that he (I assume) bought online for a 400g FOWLR. 2 DOA, other three may or may not be eating anything. Lets see if any of those are still alive in a year. (godspeed little Zanclus!)

I'll refrain from further thread hijacking, as I have laundry to do. Cheers guys.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you have said here.

I wouldn't be in this hobby with Old Town. Eddie has helped me out a TON. You get what you pay for, and at Old Town you pay for and get the best (including the knowledge of the staff).
 
I buy all my dry goods from our local fish store to help them stay in business, The store i use has alot of fish stock but there coral is minimal. I agree if it wasn't for local stores this hobby would have died, Also i don't trust most online fish/coral places just because i want to see in person what im paying for and with our local store if a fish dies bring it back and if it wasn't your fault it passed away then they make it good.If i want to use a online supplier of coral i will go there to inspect it before i buy it even if it means driving all day.
 
I would rather support my lfs then shopping online or from a wholesale place that sells to the public. If it wasn't for my lfs I would have been out along time ago to. Its funny how people only goto lfs when they have problems and need a solution
 
the more money i save from not paying tax on higher priced items that i buy online, ie pumps, lighting, skimmer, controller, ect, means more money that can be spent on fish and coral from a LPS.

ive had mixed outcomes from buying livestock online, both good and bad.
 
WeePee said:
the more money i save from not paying tax on higher priced items that i buy online, ie pumps, lighting, skimmer, controller, ect, means more money that can be spent on fish and coral from a LPS.
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Very little of the profits for a LFS come from livestock sales. It's primarily dry goods and service accounts that keep us going. The fish and corals you buy should theoretically live for years... it's foods and salt and additives that keep you coming back.

Many stores will be happy to just not be losing money with their livestock. If you're wondering why PetCo doesn't carry $1700 conspicillatus angelfish, it's because it hurts profits if something like that dies in the store, and not every store has the knowhow to keep the expensive stuff alive.
 
i believe this is the gripe that any brick and mortar store has with internet sales though. When you go to a store you are paying for the customer service and the relationship you may develop with the staff. It is in pricing the products that you have to make the relationship you build make up for x difference. To some people that might be a 5% markup over an internet price while others 25% and so forth. You then need to determine where for your business you need to set that % based on how much value the customer places in your relationship. I could have saved a few bucks buying things online when i was first starting sw but the employee put up with my stupid questions and didn't treat me like a moron even if he was thinking it and so it was worth it to buy from him. Heck with freshwater i ended up going to the same petco (gasp) all of the time because the employee there was the only person that ever remembered me out of all the fish stores i went to and always asked how the tank was doing how x fish was working out and so on...
 
I will contiune to support my LFS, in my area. However, after reading this from the OP, I'm less likely to visit that store in the future.

I respect your opinion, and your ability to post it, but your are a representative of a wonderful LFS and I would expect more responsability about comments of other retailers or online merchants, in front of current or prospective customers. While far from perfect, in my professional life, I never say anything negative about my competitors. I strive to add more value, better customer service and a personal touch to win my clients business.

My worthless $.02.
 
I'm the guy with the moorish idols,i have had one for the past 13months,i bought 4more,but 2 were DOA,which is the main deterrant from buying online.I bought all these fish from a respectable online vendor,they are as advertised and am very pleased.You guys have exceptional fish in stock and i have only been to your store a few times in my time keeping a reef/fowler.I did pickup a nice flameback fom you guys not too long ago,yes it was expensive,but it was healthy and well worth it IMO.Another example is that awesome conspicuous angel you guys have,it's alot cheaper than online,and if i could spend the $1870sfter tax on it without worrying if it would die on me,it would be in my tank instead of in your display :)

DFS is a great online place to compare pricing and see a few facts on most of their livestock,Ted(skullV) has bought all his fish from DD because they are healthy and most always pest/parasite-free.Let's take a Helfrichi for example,I can get it online for $69.99-$99.99,yet you sell them for $169.99,so you can clearly see why one would want to save $70-$100.After spending $225 or more,then shipping is free(DFS/LA).So I agree that our LFS are invaluable but there is nothing wrong with on-line vendors.

After having a few DOA's i think i have made my last online purchase just for the livestock's sake,there should be a limited type of fish/corals that can be sold by online stores.There has to be a better way of getting us hobbyists healthy lively fish.


That was my $.02 of the day
 
Foster&Smith is also a brick and mortar store. I'm sure they have their share of information seekers and not buyers.
 
BADGUS said:
,I can get it online for $69.99-$99.99,yet you sell them for $169.99
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Just to use your example... Checking online at LA they sell them for $99.99... overnight shipping brings it to $144.98... usually we sell them for $149.99. That's not a huge difference. And for a species that can be sensitive, and firefish most definitively can be to shipping, there is a great value added in being able to see them swimming around in our tanks all happy.

If it was only dry gods that people bought online I wouldn't care enough to wax poetic on the forums about the issue. But countless fish are needlessly dying out there so that people can save a few dollars. You experienced it firsthand, and I wish your little Zanclus the best.
 
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