Zoa and Paly growth rate experimentation feedback

J

Jason13

New member
About a week ago I posted about a single paly that I cut completely off a rock only to find 2 babies pop up 2 weeks later on the small bit of tissue left on yhe rock.

That got me thinking. I have observed an array of physical traits of various palys and zoas such as physical adult size, mat texture, skirt characteristics, etc.

I have been keeping a log of growth from baby to mature size, new polyp frequency and spread.

The theory here is that based on certain physical characteristics, one can determine how quickly a polyp will grow regardless of color, name, or taking someone's word for it.

Has anyone done any real research on this? Is there documentation to support it?

I am currently trying to figure out the most cost effective and efficient way to accumulate 30-40 individual polyps of varying characteristics (like PE or Micro, etc.) for further comparison and longer term observation. But if this wheel has already been invented, I don't want to spend time re-inventing it.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
 
Sounds like an interesting project. Or a fun way to grow out an incredible garden:D

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
 
I posted a wtb thread and it looks like there is a lot of opportunity out there. I hope to use this thread to outline the specifics of this crazy experiment in the future for all that are interested. I will update with pics of initial frags, the specific physical characteristics, and whatever additional data I can get from the frag source such as previous lighting, percieved growth rate, etc.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
 
Akwarius said:
Great experiment. I have some data of my own if youre interested.
Click to expand...

Jason, in case you don't know who Travis is you want to say yes to his offer (planetzoa.com). Travis I am glad you finally joined CR, we look forward to your knowledge here.
 
jm23 said:
Jason, in case you don't know who Travis is you want to say yes to his offer (planetzoa.com). Travis I am glad you finally joined CR, we look forward to your knowledge here.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jon. Im looking forward to expanding my horizons here. Plus you guys have cool smilies. :thrasher:
 
Travis, I will gladly welcome any data you can share! One of the things that got me thinking about this is outlined below.


I have 2 frags of Devils Armor. The first one was collected from a friend, and the other purchased from a member on CR. Looking at them both individually, you would come to the conclusion that they were both Devils armor.

However, when compared side by side there are a TON of physical differences.

Both polyps have been in my tank for 4 months. Both started out with 5-6 polyps.

Frag A came from a colony that has been left to grow for 2+ years untouched. Maintenance on the tank has probably been spotty at best. The polyps are large (quarter sized) The stems are somewhat long, and the skirt is a medium length.

Frag B came from a tank that was meticulously maintained, the colony was more than likely fragged often, and dosed with Vit C. The polyps are penny sized, the skirts are a little on the long side, and the stems are medium to short in length.

Now here's where it gets interesting. Both are side by side in my tank. Frag A is growing like crazy, looks AMAZING too! Frag A has about 15 polyps now. 3 babies have popped in the last week. Frag B on the other hand looks almost identical to the day I bought it. Color is ok, It doesn't look all that special.

Are the both DA? Yeah.
Are there HUGE differences visually? Yep.
Do those initial visual differences give me clues on what to expect if I'm looking at the frag for the first time??? Maybe...
 
Devils armor zoas typically grow fast, but not always. You're making a big assumption that the DA frags have the same origin, and therefore should share the same growth characteristics. One of the reasons that the DA-type morph is relatively cheap is due to the frequency of it's importation. Basically, any polyp with a red "batwing" pattern and silver skirts could be classified as DA. My point is that they might not be the same at a genetic level. Unless we can verify with the actual divers who collect the polyps that this morph only occurs in one spot in the ocean, we will never know. A similar situation happened to me several years ago with the Raptors Rainbow morph. Mine grew at a snails pace while everyone else reported fast growth. The self-proclaimed zoa experts on RC thought I was making it up until I got my hands on another frag, and it turned out mine was a slightly different variation that grew more slowly.

Complicating your issue even further is the fact that zoa growth can be sporadic, often times in response to a change in environmental conditions. For example, frag A could be responding positively to the improvement of environmental conditions, whereas frag B is just "business as usual" since your tank more closely resembles that of its previous owner. Unfortunately, until you remove these 2 variables, its nearly impossible to determine the cause.
 
Aquaman said:
SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALL NEED TO GET LAID >>> LOL ...you have too much time on your hands lol JK?
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? I picked up this hobby to get away from my wife for a couple hours a day. If I don't have anything to do, (like this dumb experiment), then that means more time with her...
 
I agree that they were not of the same origin. That was kind of the underlying point. I said "Looking at them both individually, you would come to the conclusion that they were both Devils armor." That' half the reason I wanted to do more with this. I am going off the theory that Name and color don't matter as much as other physical characteristics. (you could easily replace the words "physical characteristics" with "genetics", but I don't have a lab and there is no way I can trace origin)


However, you bring up an phenomenal point with environmental changes. I never gave that any thought and it would basically render any data I hope to gather partially invalid.

As a hobbyist with a thirst for knowledge, I suppose the best I can hope for out of this would be learning what my tanks like or dislike. Maybe I need to scale back this grand idea and be a little more focused if I want to do some experimenting. I need less variables and more controls to get value out of any "experimenting" I plan on doing.
 
Careful mixing phentoype (physical characteristics) with genotype (its specific genes). Similar appearance may be indicative of similar genes, or it may simply be indicative of completely different genes expressing themselves in a similar manner. Nonetheless, you still can learn things by looking at phenotypes.

Your idea is great, but the guy with the awesome zoa avatar is right, there are just far too many variables for it to be anything more than a case study of your tank and those specific polyps. Regardless, it sounds like a fun idea, and I will be eager to hear your results and read over your records. Environmental factors play a huge hole incidentally... an easy one is simply the stalk height - longer stalks can simply mean that it is straining to get more light. Easy to test as well, take a normal frag and place it in a darker area for a few weeks :)

These are marvelous creatures, so all because you won't be fulfilling some larger ideal, you have a very cool project on your hands, have fun with it, and sharing what you learn (even if it is just your experience with your polyps in your tank) can still benefit others, so keep us posted!
 
The variables are what kill you in these types of experiments. That's why most people (including me) have lots of theories about zoa husbandry, but little hard evidence. To make matters worse, when you compare notes, there are often clear contradictions. "Dirty water vs. clean water" for instance. People make observations about zoa health and claim that factor "x" must be the cause, while at the same time overlooking "y" and "z".

I love that you're curious about this. The hobby has different levels of understanding, and those who are scientifically minded can go really deep into a rabbit hole. For the most part, this is uncharted territory.
 
Aquaman, getting LAID is fun, but after that there's still 23 hours 59 minutes and 30 seconds left in the day. :)
 
Akwarius said:
Aquaman, getting LAID is fun, but after that there's still 23 hours 59 minutes and 30 seconds left in the day. :)
Click to expand...

:rofl:

I've been wanting to experiment with 2 identical frags but i've been lazy and havn't picked them up. I wanted to put 1 in my 75g Sps dominated tank that i highly maintain and 1 in my 8g seahorse tank that i do minimal maintenance on. See what grows faster.

Both have different light. 1 tank gets fed, the other doesn't. And 1 has perfect water and the other probably doesn't lol.

Yeah there are a lot of variables between the 2 but i wanted to see if the 8 tank w/ the less then perfect water was better for zoas even though it doesn't get fed like the 75g tank does. Both frags are going to come from the same colony at the same time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top