Hiraki Ich-X Blog

When I had ich, I looked at this product and decided against using it. We all know what the only viable treatments for ich are and if you want to get rid of it, you have to follow the rules. Symptoms might be gone but the ich will not. It will be in that water waiting for an opportunity.

As for garlic, it does now cure anything. Garlic's purpose is an appetite stimulator. It's job is to keep the fish hungry so it can get more nutrition. This boosts the fish's immune system just like our kids taking vitamins. Garlic does not cure ich.
 
Good luck with your ich problem - but as others have said, it's snake oil, and you're basically just hoping for the fish to fight it down to sub-visual levels themselves. That stuff is likely reef-safe, invert-safe, fish-safe, and ich-safe...

If you must try something in your DT (other than letting the fish's natural defenses succeed or fail), than try a choloroquine phosphate or quinine sulfate. The first being preferred (its an anti-malarial drug, works on ich, has been documented in several studies, used in the industry as well), the latter being slightly cheaper and easier to find. Please note though I wouldn't recommend treating anything in your DT. I'm just saying, if you absolutely must, perhaps use something that works. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm
 
So if I decided to go the quarantine route. How big of a tank to properly house 7 fish? Kole tang, yellow tang, 2 oscellaris, dragon goby, yellow tail fairy wrasse, royal gamma? What kind of filtration? I have a HOB CPR protein skimmer I can use. Is that good for he quarantine tank?
 
Ryandragon said:
So if I decided to go the quarantine route. How big of a tank to properly house 7 fish? Kole tang, yellow tang, 2 oscellaris, dragon goby, yellow tail fairy wrasse, royal gamma? What kind of filtration? I have a HOB CPR protein skimmer I can use. Is that good for he quarantine tank?
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Being that the fish are only in there temporarily a large tank isn't necessary. Get the biggest qt you can afford and have room for. A HOB filter is all you really need. I use a Penguin bio wheel filter on mine. Get an ammonia alert badge (can get from most Petco, petsmart, etc...) and some prime or amquel to monitor and neutralize the ammonia. The ammonia alert is cheap and will last you quite some time. It'll also give you a constant ammonia reading without the need for frequent testing. I've had great luck with mine.
 
Listen to BB when it comes to quarantining! Incidentally, I will add that first, don't purely rely on prime/amquel for ammonia - it works temporarily in a pinch, but will still build up a toxin in your tank, just not as toxic as ammonia, so fish tolerate it better. Extended use without proper water changes, and a viable biological filter (bacteria) will unduly stress, and possibly kill your fish (I wish I wasn't speaking from experience on this one...). Use Tim's One and Only - it works well. Many people use it for quick QT tanks, and some have even done as instructed and added fish a day later...

As for a filter, get a simple HOB filter, you won't need the protein skimmer. Especially as some medications require that you turn them off while medicating. While not medicating, or if using a medication that is ok with skimming, than it certainly can only help.

At the end of the day, it's your call as to how you want to treat this. Just be aware that crypto-free tanks are difficult, and never a guaranteed thing. They exist, but take a lot of precautions, work, and patience. I am certain as I can be that my DT is crypto free. It is also fishless and has been for about 5 months now. In my efforts to maintain that, I quarantine literally everything I put in the tank, short of the water for water changes. I also have seperate tools for each of my tanks, and so on, and despite all of that - I could still unwittingly re-introduce the parasite, or even have a very improbable cyst that has just stayed as a cyst for 5 months....

Long story short, make the decisions that best fit your situation and your fish. If that's going fallow / QT / meds that work, great! If its hoping the fish beat it back, wonderful - do everything you can to help them get healthy. Just be aware of many of these "reef safe" ich cures - most do nothing, and some even poison the fish to get the fish to generate more of a slime coat. This will surely only help kill your fish, not help them beat back a parasite that is already lodged deep in its flesh.

Good luck!!!
 
tkh said:
Listen to BB when it comes to quarantining! Incidentally, I will add that first, don't purely rely on prime/amquel for ammonia - it works temporarily in a pinch, but will still build up a toxin in your tank, just not as toxic as ammonia, so fish tolerate it better. Extended use without proper water changes, and a viable biological filter (bacteria) will unduly stress, and possibly kill your fish (I wish I wasn't speaking from experience on this one...). Use Tim's One and Only - it works well. Many people use it for quick QT tanks, and some have even done as instructed and added fish a day later...

As for a filter, get a simple HOB filter, you won't need the protein skimmer. Especially as some medications require that you turn them off while medicating. While not medicating, or if using a medication that is ok with skimming, than it certainly can only help.

At the end of the day, it's your call as to how you want to treat this. Just be aware that crypto-free tanks are difficult, and never a guaranteed thing. They exist, but take a lot of precautions, work, and patience. I am certain as I can be that my DT is crypto free. It is also fishless and has been for about 5 months now. In my efforts to maintain that, I quarantine literally everything I put in the tank, short of the water for water changes. I also have seperate tools for each of my tanks, and so on, and despite all of that - I could still unwittingly re-introduce the parasite, or even have a very improbable cyst that has just stayed as a cyst for 5 months....

Long story short, make the decisions that best fit your situation and your fish. If that's going fallow / QT / meds that work, great! If its hoping the fish beat it back, wonderful - do everything you can to help them get healthy. Just be aware of many of these "reef safe" ich cures - most do nothing, and some even poison the fish to get the fish to generate more of a slime coat. This will surely only help kill your fish, not help them beat back a parasite that is already lodged deep in its flesh.

Good luck!!!
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+5
 
Can't believe I forgot to mention water changes! Thanks for catching that tkh! Use prime or amquel in conjunction with water changes to keep your ammonia in check. Siphon out and visible waste as often as you can as well.

On the qt note...just released my solar fairy wrasse into the DT. He had a great quarantine and remains visibly stress free. I can safely say he won't pose a disease risk to my DT.
 
This is day 3 of dosing hikari. And the fish seems to have less spots. They are very active and is eating anything I put in the tank. Maybe they r healthy enough to start beating the ich. Idk. S long as the symptoms go away. I can live with Ich in my tank
 
Ryandragon said:
This is day 3 of dosing hikari. And the fish seems to have less spots. They are very active and is eating anything I put in the tank. Maybe they r healthy enough to start beating the ich. Idk. S long as the symptoms go away. I can live with Ich in my tank
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Do you understand the life cycle of ich? Less spots mean that the disassociation stage has been reached and the ich is now free swimming. That is why you might be seeing less symptoms. Next the ich will reproduce.
 
BigBarnacles said:
Well aren't you just Mr. Good News!?
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I have the fairy light of Sookie in me.

I hate to say it, but these fish are condemned. I hope they make it. I know folks on here lie to escape backlash and shame and say the fish are doing great but actually have already died. Do you have any pics of these fish and the tank?

hillary-clinton.gif
 
KeishaKornbread said:
I have the fairy light of Sookie in me.

I hate to say it, but these fish are condemned. I hope they make it. I know folks on here lie to escape backlash and shame and say the fish are doing great but actually have already died. Do you have any pics of these fish and the tank?

hillary-clinton.gif
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Oh trust me! When I say the fish are very active and eating crazy, they are! And why the hell would I lie to the people on this forum about the well being of my animals? I don't need to get approval from anybody! Also, I do understand the life cycle of ich. Hell, Im in Pre-med right now and we did learned about ich in microbiology! I know the symtoms are lessen because the ich are in the free swimming state.That's why I'm keeping the water quality as best as I could and feed my fish well so they can build immunity to fend off the free swimming ich that tries to attach to their bodies! And I'll post a pic soon!
Btw, no system is ich free! You can try to keep it ich free but every time you add a frag or something to your tank chances are the ich will be coming along with that frag no matter how you quarantine or rinse it with your tank water. Ich is like the common cold, everybody has it; it's just a matter of if the fish are healthy and stress free enough that they can keep the ich from attacking them!
 
I will respectfully disagree with you on no system being ich (can we start using the proper name here, crypto)-free. I would bet money my system is. Crypto is an obligate parasite. It NEEDS a fish host, or it dies. It can indeed stay as a cyst for long periods of time, the longest I have read about in studies being aroun 110 days or so. Potentially longer. So, how can I say my system is crypto-free? Well... It has had no new additions for 5+ months, nor has it had fish for as long. The odds are heavily in my favor, and only improve with each passing day. Yes, you are correct that you then have to quarantine everything coming in... Which I do. I have a separate tank setup just to keep new coral, rock, macro-algae, and inverts. Everything will stay there, with no new additions to that tank, for at least a month, although to be much more certain I am considering bumping that to 3 months. I also quarantine and treat any new fish - this likely being the most dangerous addition ultimately. Once I put the fish I have in quarantine into my tank, I would have a much higher risk. After I add my fish, I would no longer be certain, but I would still be treating my display tank as if it is crypto-free in terms of keeping all my accessories separate (gloves, cleaning materials, feeding jars, etc... Nothing comes in touch with my main tank that has touched any of my other tanks. I don't even float bags in my main tank). Am I taking it a bit too far, and being a touch too paranoid about something that is likely to ultimately be introduced somehow anyway? Perhaps - but it is nonetheless a goal I hope to maintain.

As for it being like the common cold... I, again, disagree. Perhaps within the hobby the majority of fish, if not all, are exposed to it. But in the wild, this is not the case. It is due to the cramped quarters, stressful conditions, and closed circuit systems that we impose upon aquarium fish that causes them to have such a high infected rate.

Finally, if you're a pre-med student, than I would hope that you recognize the merit behind studies published in peer reviewed magazines, and I'm not talking hobbiest magazines here. If you read up enough on crypto, you will realize why people may say that your initial statement that "they have less spots, therefore must be doing better" means little for now. Time will tell if they can beat it down to subvisual levels. I hope they do, and I hope you have luck with this.
 
I can see your point! I agreed with you that you can be extremely careful in quarantine everything coming in and hopefully stay crypto- free. And I am well aware that fish don't get infect as much with cryptocaryon because the habitat are virtually stress free for them. As with the common cold comment I was preferring to the hobby since the LFS shares water within their tanks so almost all fish has been exposed to cryptocaryon irritant at one point in their captivity life. Just like how we can't really live in a bubble and avoid having the cold. My point is that all I wanted for my fish are for them to develope a better immune system to fight off ich. But thank you for the best wishes!
 
Ryandragon said:
I can see your point! I agreed with you that you can be extremely careful in quarantine everything coming in and hopefully stay crypto- free. And I am well aware that fish don't get infect as much with cryptocaryon because the habitat are virtually stress free for them. As with the common cold comment I was preferring to the hobby since the LFS shares water within their tanks so almost all fish has been exposed to cryptocaryon irritant at one point in their captivity life. Just like how we can't really live in a bubble and avoid having the cold. My point is that all I wanted for my fish are for them to develope a better immune system to fight off ich. But thank you for the best wishes!
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Captive conditions inflict several serious disease to any population. I liken it more to dysentery, in the sense that it is more likely to be fatal than the common cold, but the idea is the same. Although the thought of tiny creatures eating my fish from inside out freaked me out enough to be completely obsessed regarding QT, lol.

Good luck with going the immune system route, it has worked (in one sense) for others, and hopefully your fish recover! Look up what some of the others have recommended regarding medicated food, and relevant vitamins etc... Given that my approach is from a different angle, I have not researched those options as much, and so cannot give much advice for it, but others have, and these forums are a great source of information. Keep asking questions, I have learned so much from the people on here, it's really nice to have not only a knowledgeable, but also local community to share the hobby with!
 
Allrite so treating the DT was a huge mistake and a big failure on my part! I've lost my kole tang, a oscellaris, dragon goby and a royal gramma. So I finally grew some balls and went out and bought a 10gal tank for hospital tank. Right now all that's left are one oscellaris, yellow tang and a yellowfin fairy wrasse! Treating with cupermine now in the 10gal while the 65g DT sit fallow for 6 weeks! I had to remove almost all my rocks( about 100 lbs) to get these 3 fish! The fairy wrasse seems stressed out and idt it's gonna make it pass tonight!
So here's the moral of the story if you are thinking about treating the DT and hoping the fish would build up their immune system, you will kill your fish!
I've learned my mistake! Unfortunately at the loss of 4 fish, from now on every new fish that goes into the main DT will be under cupermine medication for a month before going in the DT
 
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