Recommendations on Camera

Joe,

The other option i found was a canon 60D with a EF-S 18-135mm IS Lens, then would just add on the macro lens all in for both the body and the lense is 850

60D is a great camera. Uses the same sensor as the t2i, t3i, t4i and 7D. 18-135mm is a good focal range. Just keep in mind that what they make up for in a wide focal range, they lack in other important areas such as sharpness, vignetting and aperture values (unless you are buying L series, which are much improved, yet still underperform their prime lens counterparts.). I'd invest in a decent speedlite such as a 430ex or better. It will make that 18-135mm much more user friendly indoors.
 
Full frame is decieving, yes, it is relative to the popular 35mm film cameras. What is full frame? It's certainly not the largest sensor available. Pentax makes a handheld medium format camera that is much "fuller" than a full frame. I disagree that a better camera (beyond the level I suggested) will produce better images for anyone pursuing amateur photography. New cameras are only new for 6 months, but there are still lenses from the early 90's with a place in many photographer's bags. I'm still willing to bet that nobody on the forum has a system to accurately distinguish between a crop sensor and full frame image, without looking at the meta data.

That's the beauty of forums, we can agree to disagree. And you are right that many people cannot tell the difference between full frame vs crop. I would tend to shy away from a broad generalization though. There are people on here that can tell the difference. Does it matter, it does not.

I wouldn't say that a "better" camera will take better photos. Using my other example above, a consumer grade camera in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing will outshoot a pro level dslr in the hands of someone just using full auto. As I mentioned above, I won't be upgrading for a couple years because IMO cameras haven't really advanced to where I will spend money on something that is barely better than what I've been using for the last 6 years. Only advance has been HD video which I really don't have a need for.

I think the general theme here is to learn the camera as that will lead to better photography. I think the higher end dslr's are only worth it once you've "mastered" the basics and have moved on to being able to apply camera settings creatively to achieve the photo your after.

Again, I'm not trying to argue, just trying to show people that just like reef keeping, there is more than one way to skin a cat in photography. Just get what you can afford without going overboard, and what will suit your needs.

Joe has given great advice and I would certainly follow it because he is showing the value of only buying what you need rather than buying something that's "pro" level. When I made the jump from film to dslr, I honestly couldn't afford a "pro" level camera. I bought what I could afford and have been happy with it. Now that I can afford one, I still have yet to jump and buy one. I will once I find something that adds functionality and value compared to what I'm currently using.
 
i would suggest going to the store and holding all the rebel series cameras then holding the 60d. the rebel's felt terribly plastic and small in my hands, i ended up going with the 60d based on this more than anything else about it. it came down between the t4i and the 60d for me. i believe canon is having a sale right now on their refurb products. i would see if you can find a 60d on there i think i got mine for 650$, or any body your looking for, 20% off a already discounted product is nice. the sale is on the refurb lenses as well, would check it out.
 
The majority of professionals use Canon for a reason. You can't beat their lens line up. 98% of the people on this forum have no use for a 6D. There has come a point in camera technology where more just becomes more, unnecessary add ons. An Xti can produce the same image as a 1DX. A better camera isn't going to produce a better image. Invest in better lenses, a fast writing memory card and some basic knowledge of aperture, shutter speed and iso. Any Canon camera that's 10mp or better, will get the job done. P.S. Rule of thumb, never shoot over 800iso if you are expecting a quality photo. Good luck.

I can shoot at 3200 ISO and still good! All depends on cameras... Newer ones even better
 
That's the beauty of forums, we can agree to disagree. And you are right that many people cannot tell the difference between full frame vs crop. I would tend to shy away from a broad generalization though. There are people on here that can tell the difference. Does it matter, it does not.

I wouldn't say that a "better" camera will take better photos. Using my other example above, a consumer grade camera in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing will outshoot a pro level dslr in the hands of someone just using full auto. As I mentioned above, I won't be upgrading for a couple years because IMO cameras haven't really advanced to where I will spend money on something that is barely better than what I've been using for the last 6 years. Only advance has been HD video which I really don't have a need for.

I think the general theme here is to learn the camera as that will lead to better photography. I think the higher end dslr's are only worth it once you've "mastered" the basics and have moved on to being able to apply camera settings creatively to achieve the photo your after.

Again, I'm not trying to argue, just trying to show people that just like reef keeping, there is more than one way to skin a cat in photography. Just get what you can afford without going overboard, and what will suit your needs.

Joe has given great advice and I would certainly follow it because he is showing the value of only buying what you need rather than buying something that's "pro" level. When I made the jump from film to dslr, I honestly couldn't afford a "pro" level camera. I bought what I could afford and have been happy with it. Now that I can afford one, I still have yet to jump and buy one. I will once I find something that adds functionality and value compared to what I'm currently using.

I agree...there are a couple people on this forum that I bet could tell diff in full vs crop. Myself being one. I use a 5d mk ii, but that's because I was going to school for photography for a short period of time and would use to shoot photoshoots/weddings/ what not... But I do agree.. For most... Like my wife =) it's a waste.
 
I agree...there are a couple people on this forum that I bet could tell diff in full vs crop. Myself being one. I use a 5d mk ii, but that's because I was going to school for photography for a short period of time and would use to shoot photoshoots/weddings/ what not... But I do agree.. For most... Like my wife =) it's a waste.

Even thou you can tell, how much does it really even matter to you on a regular basis for normal personal usage?
 
I sold 5D went to 60D because they have different feature but still want to see the different between the 6D and 60D. Peolple like new thing. For example why people keep buy new phone like Iphone, because this is a Technology War. Sometime because the look not the quality...And I agree the lenses is more important then the body, but I have money I still want the 6D or Nikon D800. I did not say the this cameara better than that camera. Better picture from the guy behind the camera, it's not because the camera.
 
Even thou you can tell, how much does it really even matter to you on a regular basis for normal personal usage?

That wasn't the statement at hand George... Never said it was important for everyday use.. Just said I can tell... Bc statement was made no one on forum could tell diff...

I love my full frame... And won't go back... But tangency rocks a crop and takes better photos then me... I hardly shoot anymore...and I can admit I need still have lots to learn.
 
I agree...there are a couple people on this forum that I bet could tell diff in full vs crop. Myself being one. I use a 5d mk ii, but that's because I was going to school for photography for a short period of time and would use to shoot photoshoots/weddings/ what not... But I do agree.. For most... Like my wife =) it's a waste.

It's hard to tell full or crop, but when you are wedding photographer you will feel better with the Full Frame Camera in the small room with many guess.
 
But just because a few people say they can tell, doesn't mean reefjunky should want or need a full frame sensor in his DSLR if it won't matter 99% of the time for what he's going to be doing with the camera. The money is better spent on quality glass for in front of the sensor.
 
But just because a few people say they can tell, doesn't mean reefjunky should want or need a full frame sensor in his DSLR if it won't matter 99% of the time for what he's going to be doing with the camera. The money is better spent on quality glass for in front of the sensor.

Lol u putting words in my mouth today????

Again... Not my statement...

Ur George... I'm Jorge... Just bc u think I said it... Doesn't mean I did! Lol
 
Well thank you all for your input so far i am sure there is going to be more to come, i realize that everyone has there difference of opinion and that is the best thing about a forum is the open discussion. I think at the end of the day i am going to focus on lenses that i am looking into then try and figure out what i need behind that lens to make it a good combination, for me to take a great picture. I have taken some great pics with my XTI i wish that it was working properly and i would probably just hold onto it and get more lenses. but i just want to say thanks to everyone for your opinions i will use them in making my decision in the near future.

Granted we all want the best out there its the same with our tanks we all want the best new coral in a sense but if we can't care for it then the coral will sooner or later loose out cause we didn't know better and that is the same thing about photography that no matter how good your equip is if you don't know how to use it to its fullest it will never take a great picture.
 
Lol u putting words in my mouth today????

Again... Not my statement...

Ur George... I'm Jorge... Just bc u think I said it... Doesn't mean I did! Lol

Neither of my posts put words in your mouth, just expressing an opinion on practicality. It's not a necessary selling point to a hobbyist that is not making a living off their camera to buy up into a more expensive camera with a full frame sensor. You like having it good for you, was it necessary to have, I think not.
 
I'm curious as to how anyone can look at a photo and accurately tell me it was shot with a crop sensor or a full frame. Please enlighten me.

I can take the same exact photo with a 5D mark iii as I can with a t2i, using the same lens. Difference being the distance between the subject and myself. So please tell me how your naked eye would distinguish between the two. It can't be done. As for needing a full frame for wide angle, there is a 10-22mm ef-s lens for crop sensors which converts to 16mm. I'm not sure how much wider you need than that.
 
I'm curious as to how anyone can look at a photo and accurately tell me it was shot with a crop sensor or a full frame. Please enlighten me.

I can take the same exact photo with a 5D mark iii as I can with a t2i, using the same lens. Difference being the distance between the subject and myself. So please tell me how your naked eye would distinguish between the two. It can't be done. As for needing a full frame for wide angle, there is a 10-22mm ef-s lens for crop sensors which converts to 16mm. I'm not sure how much wider you need than that.

+1 My understanding is that full frame just has a bigger field of vision as in the picture below showing the difference. But I am new to this, please enlighten me. If your given a single photo, what do you look for?

View attachment 12196
 
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