EricTheRed
No, I'm not a communist..
How high do you need to keep your 2 Ai's to get good coverage? I have a canopy over my 90 and worry that I won't get enough spread if I attach them to my canopy.
What LED's to go with?
- Thread starter Jason7181
- Start date
How high do you need to keep your 2 Ai's to get good coverage? I have a canopy over my 90 and worry that I won't get enough spread if I attach them to my canopy.
I actually have a canopy also but what I did was take the door like thing off of the canopy and took the brackets that came with it and set them on top of the canopy does not look bad at all. So they ate sitting 12 inches off of tgr water. They also have hanging kits to make sure you have enough spread. If yiy tell me how to post a picture on this page I will. I've never posted a PICT on this before I fell dumb! Lol
EricTheRed
No, I'm not a communist..
This is how I post pics. It's pretty easy...
http://www.chicagoreefs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268
http://www.chicagoreefs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268
SkullV
New member
2x AI SOL fixtures will NOT be enough coverage to keep SPS/Clams anywhere you want in a 48x18 tank.
jcarlilesiu
Active member
We control ours off of an aquacontroller, and though I don't have it set up this way, it would be cool to have the ramp up and ramp down programing different for the blues and whites.
That way, the ramp up the morning can start with the blues and then fade into white at high light and then back down in the reverse.
I might have to do some reprogramming on mine!
jcarlilesiu
Active member
I disagree.
With the fixture at 12" height above the tank, and assuming a 90 gallon tall (since he said 48X18), then the total height above the sand bed is just over 3'.
According to AI's performance specs, even at that height, you should be getting at least 240 par front to back and the same with some overlap in the 48" direction. It might drop a bit at the edges and in the center.
And this is at the sandbed.
SkullV
New member
I disagree.
With the fixture at 12" height above the tank, and assuming a 90 gallon tall (since he said 48X18), then the total height above the sand bed is just over 3'.
According to AI's performance specs, even at that height, you should be getting at least 240 par front to back and the same with some overlap in the 48" direction. It might drop a bit at the edges and in the center.
And this is at the sandbed.
I GUARANTEE that you will not get those par measurements at the sandbed and would be happy to bring my PAR meter over to anyone's home to prove it. The AI SOL puts off a narrow blade of high par light that drops off QUICKLY when you move away from the center.
That along with the poor spectrum of the light really drops it down in quality.
Nearly all of the manufacturer supplied PAR charts are garbage.
The following I have found through independant research and discussions with current owners to be incorrect, from a little to a lot (in no order):
- AI Sol
- EcoTech Radion
- Apollo
- Evolution
- E Shine
- Ecoxotic Panarama
- ALL Orphek
jcarlilesiu
Active member
Fair enough.
Once you finish up with your par meter on your new lights we can use my tank to get some readings on the AIs.
I do have 4 of them over a 36"x36" footprint, running whites and blues at 75% and 100% respectfully.
I want to see what kind of par we have, as our clam is nearly on the bottom and happy... as... a clam? Yeah that's it.
I would be willing to shut off all but one of the AIs and see how accurate the manufacturer is with their graph.
SkullV
New member
That would be great! There is a TON of misinformation out there about LEDs, their spectrum, how that spectrum relates to color/growth, and PAR. Unfortunately hobby grade PAR meters like the Apogee that we all use can't even effectively measure the PAR of Blue/Royal Blue LEDs. There is up to a 40% margin of error (PAR is higher) than what the PAR meter reads.
I am creating my own PAR charts for various LED fixtures. So far I have done a 10 CREE LED fixture, The Marineland "Reef Capable" (LOL) LED Fixture, A pair of MR11 Cool White LEDs, and will be finishing up the Radion this weekend. I look forward to getting measurements for some other fixtures now that I have my own PAR meter.
FishBeard
New member
If you can make it out to the west suburbs, we can add the RapidLED BioCube 29 DIY kit, and an Apollo 15k in a 60g cube to the list. I have had the par measured in both these tanks previously, and wouldn't mind a 2nd independent reading to verify the first set of rather impressive numbers I got from those tanks.
SkullV
New member
I would love to, particularly the Apollo. There has been a significant amount of controversy regarding the PAR measurements on that fixture. Mostly regarding fixture overlap in the manufacturer provided PAR readings. The vendor has tried to debunk some of them but owners/interested parties keep coming back with more.
I will say, that Apollo is a great budget fixture, and while the dimmable fixtures falling through on the group buy is probably the best thing that ever happened to my wallet/my tank (couldn't have lived with the B/W spectrum), I would 100x over purchase one over an AI Sol fixture. Although, both of them are extremely lacking in their spectrum, and do not look that phenomenal to MY EYES due to their spectrum's frosty nature that spectrum is PROVEN to grow coral. Also some people LOVE the look, which is fine for them.
The Apollo also looks like more of a "finished" product while the AI fixtures, and this seems like it is being addressed in the Sol NANO and Phoenix, look like a DIY wrapped in cheap plastic.
Scarlett778
New member
ok, I'm putting my two cents now. I don't find the AI Sol to look cheap and actually do find them to be very nice looking. Hence why we purchased them. We also purchased it because, it was easy to program to ramp up and down with our Apex system. I technically would like to have everything go through the Apex. Only the Ecotech Vortechs do not go through the Apex because currently there are less options if you do hook it up through the Apex System.
It has also been growing our SPS such as the Joe the Coral, Purple Tricolor Valida, and Pink Lemonade acro's. I can't give definate growth patterns with my Clam because we've only hade since last month but I can tell you that it's very happy!
Regardless of the par, or the 1.21 gigawatts, and/or the flux capacitor, I know that our current lighting fixture has been very reliable, lowered our electricity cost, and grows our coral without issue.
It has also been growing our SPS such as the Joe the Coral, Purple Tricolor Valida, and Pink Lemonade acro's. I can't give definate growth patterns with my Clam because we've only hade since last month but I can tell you that it's very happy!
Regardless of the par, or the 1.21 gigawatts, and/or the flux capacitor, I know that our current lighting fixture has been very reliable, lowered our electricity cost, and grows our coral without issue.
SkullV
New member
The issue with the AI Sol is that it was always a $400 fixture wearing a $700 fixture's shoes. Now that AI will be releasing a true "high end" fixture in the Phoenix, the price of the AI Sol dropped down into the "budget fixture" price range where it always belonged.
Like I said, it grows coral fine, and some people like a very frosty look to their tank. However, the coverage is not there (Jeremy at Premium Aquatics states 2 AI Sol to 1 Ecotech Radion), and there is a significant amount of literature coming out which is showing that Red/Green light is necessary to allow some corals to properly fluoresce.
Compare the spectrum of the AI Sol fixtures, the Ecotech Radion fixture, and what is arguably the most popular MH bulb (20k Radium):
AI Sol:
EcoTech Radion:
20k Radium (includes Radion and Ushio Bulb):
The AI Sol is simply lacking. LED "afficiandos" have been BEGGING AI to mix some NW diodes into their fixtures for a long time now to combat this but they have not listened. They have offered an entirely warm white Nano fixture, but that is too much of the wrong spectrum.
Like I have said. Lighting is VERY much personal preference. I would urge anyone who is interested in LEDs or owns a fixture that only contains Cool White/Blue/Royal Blue LEDs to either supplement their tank with some Red/Green or go look at a tank with full spectrum lighting. The difference is night and day.
Like I said, it grows coral fine, and some people like a very frosty look to their tank. However, the coverage is not there (Jeremy at Premium Aquatics states 2 AI Sol to 1 Ecotech Radion), and there is a significant amount of literature coming out which is showing that Red/Green light is necessary to allow some corals to properly fluoresce.
Compare the spectrum of the AI Sol fixtures, the Ecotech Radion fixture, and what is arguably the most popular MH bulb (20k Radium):
AI Sol:
EcoTech Radion:
20k Radium (includes Radion and Ushio Bulb):
The AI Sol is simply lacking. LED "afficiandos" have been BEGGING AI to mix some NW diodes into their fixtures for a long time now to combat this but they have not listened. They have offered an entirely warm white Nano fixture, but that is too much of the wrong spectrum.
Like I have said. Lighting is VERY much personal preference. I would urge anyone who is interested in LEDs or owns a fixture that only contains Cool White/Blue/Royal Blue LEDs to either supplement their tank with some Red/Green or go look at a tank with full spectrum lighting. The difference is night and day.
jcarlilesiu
Active member
The AI sol fixtures have been $399 to $499 for over a year or more.
Like all things, their price comes down. When the product first entered the market, it was priced high because at that time it was one of the only high end LED fixtures on the market.
You are comparing the AI intial price with products that are 2 years late to the game that of course have better technology.
Kind of an unfair, and borderline dishonest, assessment in my opinion.
SkullV
New member
The price came down because they are offering a bigger better fixture in the near future and could not charge more for less. I understand that with you only having owned this LED fixture you may have a biased (dishonest?) opinion of the fixture. I have owned multiple LED lighting systems, including only white, white/blue, white/royal blue, white/blue/royal blue, and now full spectrum.
I am not recommending the Radion to everyone, in fact I don't think that it would work for everyone and I think that EcoTech DRASTICALLY overstated it's coverage reccomendation. I am just recommending full spectrum lighting. I will again reference "The Reefer's" tank. The addition of a single Red LED improved the overall look of his tank many times over. I am far from the only one criticizing the AI SOL's spectrum.
OK skullv have you ever had the sol blue AI? If its not enough light to support clams on the sand bed like "you" said, how come my acros are booming and my maxima is thriving?????? I've don't a ton of research on this product, and respect the opinions of people like Aquatica,Midwest coral farm,and old town aquarium that all agree with AI as being top of the line leds that promote great color and growth of a reef tank. The par readings are better than what you think! And I've had to turn down the % of the power of the lights cuz it was frying Sps mid way down of my tank. I don't know why you are talking like this about AI especially if you've never had them
jcarlilesiu
Active member
Its not about a dishonest opinion, its about comparing apples to apples.
You want to compare a 2 year old AI Sol fixture, and its initial cost, to a product that was just released.
I understand that you want to validate your purchase, and for some reason have to find a reason to attempt to discredit others purchases to validate your own, but I am simply pointing out that your assessment, and that tactic, is completely off base.
You want me to say it? Yes, the radion is better fixture than the AI sol. Its also 2 years late to the game and costs almost twice as much as the aquaillumination SOL fixture.
And how many full spectrum LED fixtures were on the market when the AI sol was released?
FishBeard
New member
I am biased to my Apollo fixture, it is a great light for the price I paid. However, I would like to have a red LED, a true uv LED and a few warm white LEDs, along with being able to dim the fixture. With those wants, I still find it an excellent unit as is, and will use it until I can justify a replacement. I know what it can do, and it's overpowered for even the most light demanding corals and inverts, I would date say its actually a waste of money to buy if your tank is not dominated by sps corals, and it's a far cry from expensive compared to alternatives.
SkullV
New member
No need to get so defensive.
Yes, everything I have said here refers to the AI Sol Blue. You are correct, I do not, and have not owned one. Based on independant research, seeing them in person, and independant PAR/Spectral graphs they were not a fixture that I was willing to spend my money on.
The bottom line is the spectrum of the AI Sol Blue fixture is very limited and very frosty. We know it grows coral (although the advertised coverage is false), that is not being contested. If you like the look of that, then more power to you.
Let me reiterate and clarify before this goes any further along the aggressive line that this is heading on. The spectrum of the AI SOL blue fixture does not look good TO ME, but TO YOU it may be the bees knees. Lighting is a very personal choice as far as color is concerned.