What would you do in my current situation?

adubson

New member
It's been quite some time since I've posted on here. Since my last major update, my tank's status has not changed a whole lot unfortunately. You can refer to the thread I'm talking about here: http://www.chicagoreefs.com/forums/...hing-me-to-the-brink-of-throwing-in-the-towel

So yeah, everything kinda crapped the bed back in April and now 8 months later I still haven't found or fixed the problem. Recently, I haven't been that active around here for help because I actually made an attempt to switch to Zeovit over the summer to see if that could bring stability to my system, and I've been over at the zeovit forums for guidance. All opinions aside about Zeovit and/or the KZ product line, it seems I'm not finding a solution there either.

Synopsis of the past 8 months:
-everything was peachy in the spring
-overnight found RTN on acros
-noticed that alkalinity plummeted in my tank
-fixed that issue with changing from kalk to 2 part dosing
-nitrates began to rise exponentially
-nitrates above 80-100 ppm; carbon dosing and water changes not effective
-started Zeovit
-water changes and (maybe) Zeovit brought nitrates to the 10-25 range (via salifert testing). Still losing some SPS here and there, but about 50% of my colonies proved to be hardy and resilient.
-2.5 months into Zeovit, saw some amazing signs of life (i.e. colors appearing on some wild colonies I had never seen before, PC rainbow and milli's looked great, zoas growing like wild)
-1 week later, all polyp extension retracted again, colors fading, and signs of STN. Signs of cyano growth which progressed to decent sized breakout.
-Presently (about 3-4 weeks since previous change), losing the majority of my SPS (even the previously hardy ones), cyano still around, and increasing hair algae patches. Nitrates are beginning to rise and approach 50 ppm.

Sitting back and watching this over the past 8 months has been brutal, lol. As you could imagine, I've re-evaluated everything in regards to maintenance, feeding, etc. If this was a case of poor husbandry I think I would've found where that was by now. Water changes are consistently done every other week (15-20%), fish feedings are at a minimal (not daily), filter socks changed every other day, skimmer is overrated for system, two Jebao RW-8s are at the highest flow setting, and carbon is changed every 4 weeks. I know patience and stability is the essence of all that is good in this hobby, but it's been 8 months overall and 4 months of a very consistent Zeovit regimen now. I'm worried there is some unknown contaminant in the tank that's prevented any proliferation of the biological filtration of the system.

The tank has now been in this funk as long as it was in a good state prior. I want to get back to adding frags and watching things grow! So if you were in my shoes (including the part about being on a student/part time job budget), what would your plan of attack be? I'd prefer not to start over completely because that's a PITA and due to the budget part of things. I was thinking of a soft reset with a 80-100% water change with closely matched water parameter-wise.
 
Please tell us what you do for nutrient export, like skimmer, refugium, etc. Also, I'm not sure if its a part of the Zeovit system, but I'd add some nitrifying bacteria like MB7 to help restore a natural balance. You may also want to do weekly water changes to suck out the cyano so it doesnt get as established.
 
I have been doing daily cyano removal since it arrived. I also dose the KZ products CyanoClean and Coral Snow to fight it, but they haven't made a dent. Can't use chemiclean since Zeovit is bacteria driven. Having said that, I dose Zeobak daily which is the bacterial additive for Zeovit systems. I was previously using a combination of MB7 and vinegar dosing.

Nothing seems shocking parameter wise except for the nitrates.

Alk: 7.35
Ca: 480
Mag: 1400
NO3: 50
PO4: undetectable by NYOS low range test kit
Potassium: 400
pH: 8.0
Temp: 78.4

Nutrient export is by carbon/bacteria dosing, and an Eshopps S-120 skimmer. I've never had a refugium, or used any sort of macroalgae with the tank.
 
Just ride it out for now. Don't bother adding anything new. Take out dying corals, that's why your nitrates going up. It's typical for SPS to die slowly. Once they start dying, it's hard to stop. It may happen fast, or slow. Once all the dying stops, try adding new frags.


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I wouldn't keep making changes and chasing the tank. A big water change? Not sure if it would help or just stress the corals even more. Ride it out and keep ur head up!
 
Your nitrate problem doesn't really add up. If you're feeding minimally and skimming heavily, where is the nitrate coming from? You're either putting too much food in or not taking enough out. Does your skimmer produce black-ish disgusting smelling skimmate?

I never test NO3 because I figured that my biopellets were keeping them in check. Well, I had a couple of colonies STN on me. Checked parameters and NO3 was > 25. I did a water change and thoroughly cleaned my sand bed. I cut way back on feeding and have been keeping my skimmer clean and properly tuned. STN has stopped and is actually growing over dead area. The algae that was appearing on my sandbed has diminished, my glass is staying clean longer, and corals look good.
 
Your nitrate problem doesn't really add up. If you're feeding minimally and skimming heavily, where is the nitrate coming from? You're either putting too much food in or not taking enough out. Does your skimmer produce black-ish disgusting smelling skimmate?

I never test NO3 because I figured that my biopellets were keeping them in check. Well, I had a couple of colonies STN on me. Checked parameters and NO3 was > 25. I did a water change and thoroughly cleaned my sand bed. I cut way back on feeding and have been keeping my skimmer clean and properly tuned. STN has stopped and is actually growing over dead area. The algae that was appearing on my sandbed has diminished, my glass is staying clean longer, and corals look good.

Exactly, that's been the whole debacle. I had undetectable nitrates before this all happened and I can't get them below 25 now. I'm still getting what I believe to be some gross and foul-smelling skimmate. It's remained like a dark green-brownish color, with thicker brown sludge collected on the neck and bottom of the cup.

As I mentioned, I don't feed heavily. I never thought I fed too heavy, and all of what's transpired has led me to feed even less. I feed every other day at the moment, and feed slowly to ensure it's all consumed.

Could there be something up with the sand bed? It's only about 1.5-2" deep. I vacuum the areas that I can reach when I do my water changes, and I can consistently find areas of dirty brown release.
 
Exactly, that's been the whole debacle. I had undetectable nitrates before this all happened and I can't get them below 25 now. I'm still getting what I believe to be some gross and foul-smelling skimmate. It's remained like a dark green-brownish color, with thicker brown sludge collected on the neck and bottom of the cup.

As I mentioned, I don't feed heavily. I never thought I fed too heavy, and all of what's transpired has led me to feed even less. I feed every other day at the moment, and feed slowly to ensure it's all consumed.

Could there be something up with the sand bed? It's only about 1.5-2" deep. I vacuum the areas that I can reach when I do my water changes, and I can consistently find areas of dirty brown release.

Could be sand be related. I vacuum mine often. I too only do an inch or two and stir it up often. Next time you do a water change, put a small piece of tubing on a power head and blast water under your rock work. Could be some nasty stuff building in the areas you don't reach with your vacuum.
 
Could be sand be related. I vacuum mine often. I too only do an inch or two and stir it up often. Next time you do a water change, put a small piece of tubing on a power head and blast water under your rock work. Could be some nasty stuff building in the areas you don't reach with your vacuum.

I can't even imagine what I'll churn up under the rocks by doing that. Couldn't that be a little risky of releasing so much junk under there?
 
I can't even imagine what I'll churn up under the rocks by doing that. Couldn't that be a little risky of releasing so much junk under there?

If u do a small area once a week till u get whole tank then u can can do whole tank at once after that . I do mine least once a month although this new tank wont be easy to do so sam deep
 
I began with reef crystals. I now use Red Sea (not coral pro) since the alk and ca levels match up better for zeovit/low nutrient systems.


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I can't even imagine what I'll churn up under the rocks by doing that. Couldn't that be a little risky of releasing so much junk under there?

Yep, you'll turn up some nasty stuff, but by just letting it sit there, it's just slowly decomposing and adding nitrate. Like joe said, just do a small area until you get the whole thing. Use a turkey baster instead if you don't want to do it so intensely.
 
I don't think turning up the sand under the rocks is a bad idea but just do it slowly. Perhaps 25% of the tank at a time. Make sure you do a 30% change at the same time . I'd even recommend doing that once a week for 4-8 weeks. That should drop nitrates. Also the alk seems a little low but I'm not sure with the zeovit system you're employing. I usually keep mine around 9 dkh.
 
I don't think turning up the sand under the rocks is a bad idea but just do it slowly. Perhaps 25% of the tank at a time. Make sure you do a 30% change at the same time . I'd even recommend doing that once a week for 4-8 weeks. That should drop nitrates. Also the alk seems a little low but I'm not sure with the zeovit system you're employing. I usually keep mine around 9 dkh.

Yeah it does seem low; I used to keep my alk in that neighborhood (8-9). The recommendations for zeovit are 6-7 though, closer to natural sea water.
 
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Post a good current picture of your display tank and your sump so we can have a mental picture, maybe someone can then see something that needs to be changed
 
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