Time for a new start

FishBeard said:
Potential West 'burbs LA/DD group buy? I could use a few more fish as well...
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George - I like your thinking... I have never ordered from LA/DD. I was just at MCF and they had some beautiful Carpenters Wrasses and some "MisBar" (sp) Anthias that just came in last night. I want to let them settle a bit before I pull the trigger. Of course...by the time I get back there next weekend...they will probably be gone! So... maybe I would go in on a group buy! PM me if you can get enough folks in. I bet ETR might be interested too.

One thing is for sure I need to set up a QT.
 
OK.... ATO is installed and programmed. The Apex programming is not so intuitive that a non-techie like myself is 1,2,3. A bit of trial and error and wha la.... it is working. Of course I need to monitor things like crazy to make sure that we do not have any malfunctions. I am planning to add one more float switch to use as a deadman...or a failsafe in case the primary sticks open. I will install that one in a couple of days. If the level of the sump goes too high as a for instance, I would set it up to shut down the ATO until reset by me...as well as some of the reactors and the skimmer to prevent overflows.

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Above is a picture of the sump as of right now. I moved the BRS GFO/Carbon reactor to the right in this picture...this opened things up a little more so as to put in a 5 gal jug. I may go to a 10 gal jug at some point. If I dose with kalk....it would be nice to have a way to stir the contents before the top off kicks in. Right now I have it on a 5 min delay which should make it so the thing does not go on and off so frequently. You can also see where I am marking the jug with time and date with a dry erase marker. I want to track the water usage for a bit. What is interesting is that I am going through about 1.25 gals of top off per day. It seems I am getting a lot of evaporation... There are no leaks anywhere.

Once this is all settled a bit, then I can start working on some more advanced programming of the Apex. Adding in difference conditions... One thing I may need is another power block. I think I need to get an EB4. Also, since the Apex is working so nicely, I am thinking of replacing the RKL I have on my 72 Bow Front...and using this Apex to run both tanks. The distance is literally 6-8 feet through the wall....drill a hole and run the bus cable... and I should be able to control both tanks off of my single Apex.

More to come!
 
Update on my 92 Corner Bow

I guess it is way over do for an update to this thread. So here it goes.

I have some issues with keeping corals living and thriving for a number of reasons. I will try to cover a few here... for those who can benefit by it.

Ultra Low Nutrient Systems

When I planned my system, I planned for a bare bottom tank, a lot of flow, a lot of filtration...etc. The end result is that I had such clean water that I basically starving my corals to death. Yes... a lot of corals live via photosythesis... However, most great tanks that you see do run levels of nutrients within their systems.....very low levels.... but some. In my tank... I stripped everything out. I am running Bio Pellets in an Alpha Reactor... I have a great Skimmer... this thing skims like crazy... I was running Carbon and GFO in a BRS Dual Reactor. Plus....with a bare botton tank...and lots of flow... nothing stayed in the tank. The water was clear as can be.... no algae growth...at all. I had CUC that were dying off because they were starving... The sides of the tank had very little algae of any type growing. The rocks were nearly bare... nothing was growing on them.

Solution: I have upped my feeding in a big way. The fish and the coral love it. I have eliminated the Carbon and GFO reactor for now. I have added a couple of new fish... A Convict Tang, Mimic Tang and a Cleaner Wrasse. This has bumped up the bio load in the tank. Most of the fish I had are nano fish... lots of small fish. I still have plenty of room.... so I am researching some other cool adds in the future. I also started dosing Aquavitro Fuel to the tank 2x per week. This I think has really helped the corals that have survived thus far to reverse their decline. Thanks ETR for the suggestion.

LED Lighting

So let me say....that there is still a lot for this hobby to learn about LEDs. For sure... I need to learn more about LEDs. I have an ApolloReef 15k Solar Blast that I started the tank with. Joe at Apollo is terrific. From the start... I must admit I loved the light but envied others who had more color in the LEDs.... the Radions as a for instance. The Apollos just seem to be missing something... visually. In a way...with the blue sides of my tank.... everything always seemd washed out... in pictures and in person. I would see my neighbors (ETR) tank andothers who had T-5 and MH lights and I found myself wanting. I really like the light... I loved the programming that is possible via my Apex controller....so I stuck with it. What I had heard from various sources is that the blue, white and UV combination would grow my corals... like crazy. The reds and greens would only promote algae growth. Initially everything was doing great. I was getting great growth.... but after a while I started to see a leveling out and then a decline. I would bet almost anything that the fact that I was starving the corals... ie above... that was the main culprit of my issues. I started to see tissue reccession on my slimmers and birdsnests... for no apparent reason. After a lot of speaking with others who have had these lights... I found a common thread.... that initial growth is great.... but then there is a plateau..if you will. I have no proof that this light is the culprit of my issues. For me... I think the light is a good one... and probably, more aesthetically, is missing red and green LEDs. Again, I am not sure if these help in coral growth at all.

A couple of weeks ago, Gus who owns Prestige-LED and an active member on this board offered to give me a light to try out...to test to see if a new light would make a difference. Almost from the start....the addition of the red and green LEDs made a HUGE difference....not from a growth standpoint... but a visual one. I found that these new lights provided greater depth and definition. If you remember the early comparison to HD video... it is almost like that. To my eyes... there is just so much more... that pops with the added spectrum. As for growth... I think a week and a half is not long enough of a test. Though I am thinking there are some real postive indications.

Solution: Well I have been sitting here trying to figure out the next step. I cannot see myself going back to the Apollo at this point. The light is great... and perhaps in another tank...one that is not as odd shaped and as deep....this would be a good light. I am going to end up listing it for sale...and be honest with folks that I really want the added color. As for coral growth... not sure... initially the corals were growing like crazy. For me though.... I want the added color. On a tank with black background...or nothing... perhaps it would be different. So... if anyone is interested they are on sale from Apollo for $399 regular price... now specialed at $359. I will sell mine for $275....If anyone is interested... just PM me..... In its place I am likely going to go with the Neptune fixture from Prestige or I am going to have them build me a customer triangular light. I think the difference in cost is not that big of a deal... At the end of the day.... I am loving the red and greens in these lights... I have corals that seem to be doing better... I have corals that are getting some increased color. I think we will see differences in growth in the weeks and months to come.


Poly Extension

With the two items above... I guess it is no wonder that I don't have great polyp extension in my corals. I have purchased corals that are fuzzy in one tank...that come here and are just colorful sticks. Even with the added feeding and nutrients... the new LEDs.... I am still not getting a ton of PE. I have a lot of great flow from an MP40.....I was in nutrient transport because I liked the short waves in the tank. I have since moved to reef crest....and I have even more flow. I dont think the PE issue is because of flow. In fact... recently I am seeing some improvements in my Forest Fire Digi... and in a sunset monti that I almost threw away. The Sunset is ugly. The color is all gone. However... I started to see PE coming back a few weeks ago. I would say that it is seemingly improving everyday. Of course....not sure I will get the color back. Perhaps. We will see. I am also starting to see better PE in birdsnests and slimmers that never really went away... but seems more vigerous. There are even hints of growth... though... is it the light...or more feeding and the addition of Fuel that is doing it.... perhaps all of the above. One thing I am seeing... my torch is huge.... certainly bigger than a softball. The fuzzy mushrooms have multiplied.... I have even given away some individuals that have come off the rock.

Solution: I am not sure yet. I am still looking for the missing piece. Even initially when I had great growth... I did not have great PE. I just purchased some frags a few weeks ago as did ETR. His has PE like crazy. Mine.... nothing. My corals dont seem to be dying....but they are not thriving in the sense of great PE.... yet. Perhaps I can give an update in a couple of weeks. In the meantime... I am open to ideas.

Now... how about a few updated pictures.
 
Dan, that was the longest post EVER. I guess that happens when you work from home and your tank is in your office !! :lol:

You going to stay bare-bottom?
 
EricTheRed said:
Dan, that was the longest post EVER. I guess that happens when you work from home and your tank is in your office !! :lol:

You going to stay bare-bottom?
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Ha... You like that. It is a slow afternoon... I also have a lot of updates....

Yeah....for the time being I am staying with Bare Bottom. I can always change.....just don't want to deal with the mess and disruption.
 
Great update,i just had a good read, I do hope your system makes a great leap so that you may enjoy it and be able to have peace of mind. I hope i can help you in whatever you may need. After seeing the full layout of the tank,i think a single Neptune will take care of your lighting needs. We can always set you up with a custom led unit built to specs and give you the full led spectrum for both your eyes and your corals. You're on track to a great tank.
 
prestige-led said:
Great update,i just had a good read, I do hope your system makes a great leap so that you may enjoy it and be able to have peace of mind. I hope i can help you in whatever you may need. After seeing the full layout of the tank,i think a single Neptune will take care of your lighting needs. We can always set you up with a custom led unit built to specs and give you the full led spectrum for both your eyes and your corals. You're on track to a great tank.
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Thanks Gus! I really appreciate all of your help.
 
Wow. That is one heck of a nice tank man. I don't understand all the the technical stuff yet, but this is one of those threads I will have to save for when I need the technical knowledge. Very nice man.
 
Ok. I am no expert, but I do have some experience with freshwater planted tanks. How does that apply? Why, photosynthesis, of course. When I slap an 8,000K or 10,000K light over a planted tank, hardly any plant growth. Change that light to something in the 6,500K range, and the plants explode. I think it is the same with corals. (Someone please correct me if I am wrong, still learning, and I don't want to give bad advice.) Here is my thinking. While corals can survive with one type of feeding or the other, I think too many reefers do pay enough attention the the photosynthetic side of the corals. Maybe you need a little bit of yellow light in there. Not a lot, but a little. Also when it comes to water quality, I learned early in my adventure with water boxes, that you don't want to pull everything out. Leave some of the gunk in there. Most of the time there is something in the tank that will use it.

Ok, moment of wisdom over. Carry on. :D

And like I said, if I am totally wrong, someone smack some sense into me. :D
 
For sps especially, they require PRISTINE conditions. No ammonia, no phosphates, no nitrites, and almost no nitrates if not none. If there is gunk in the water it will break down into these and will cause issues not only with polyp extension but also growth and color development. Plants and corals are not just different environments, they're not even the same type of creatures. Corals are animals with photosynthetic organisms inside, and plants are plants, with the photosynthesis being a physical part of its cell structure. The two couldn't be more different. Algae is a saltwater plant, or at least infinitely closer to it, and those can withstand and use "gunk" in the water. Corals, no.
 
yogoshio said:
For sps especially, they require PRISTINE conditions. No ammonia, no phosphates, no nitrites, and almost no nitrates if not none. If there is gunk in the water it will break down into these and will cause issues not only with polyp extension but also growth and color development. Plants and corals are not just different environments, they're not even the same type of creatures. Corals are animals with photosynthetic organisms inside, and plants are plants, with the photosynthesis being a physical part of its cell structure. The two couldn't be more different. Algae is a saltwater plant, or at least infinitely closer to it, and those can withstand and use "gunk" in the water. Corals, no.
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Maybe I need to hit the books again. I think I misinterpreted something. Sorry about that.
 
Sorry, not to sound harsh, but trying to compare freshwater plants with corals is like comparing the life requirements of a bird with a fish. Completely different internal systems and nutrient requirements. Your lighting issue is not off at all, but when it comes to water quality, it's a night and day difference.
 
yogoshio said:
Sorry, not to sound harsh, but trying to compare freshwater plants with corals is like comparing the life requirements of a bird with a fish. Completely different internal systems and nutrient requirements. Your lighting issue is not off at all, but when it comes to water quality, it's a night and day difference.
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Got ya. You didn't sound harsh. Straight and to the point. Not a bad thing. I don't think I fully portrayed what I was trying to say either. It happens. No worries.
 
It has been a while since I posted an update on my 125 corner bowfront reef tank.

In the last several months I have had a few ups and downs with the tank. I got real close to getting rid of it as I was not real happy with things.... I was tired of losing corals....frankly! I even toyed with scraping the tank and putting a newer one in....but sticker shock stopped me. I then tweaked a few things and I think I am back on track with it. I made this video the other day to mark about the 13 month point with it. You will see some changes, losses, additions and get a feel for the way the tank stands today. Hey ETR... this is my way to shorten the read of my update..... :tee: Enjoy!

[video=youtube_share;AYKvm3MnSyo]http://youtu.be/AYKvm3MnSyo[/video]
 
awesome video, awesome tank. i'm new to saltwater and i really appreciated your commentary in the video - and how you identified the fish and corals as you filmed.
 
I see you went softie on me ;)

Dan, glad you are back up and doing better... We all experience down falls which makes us go crazy!! I will be the 1st tell you that is not good..

That sucks with the BP reactor.. Was looking forward to getting one down the road to control.. But you never know..

Also noticed you have sand now.. Why?
 
Thanks Kim. I glad you liked it.

Dre..... I gave in on the substrate. I actually am glad I did. It is only toward the front, visible area of the tank. Along the sides, under the rock, and behind the scape it is all bare...to help keep the flow and export of nutrients. I think the substrate up front is more visibly pleasing, a place where I can place my new Elegance... have other fauna grow in. The bare bottom was getting ugly... and I grew tired of it.

As for going soft..... You do know those are fighting words!!!! :fish: JK.... I am going to keep a mix of things.
 
Okay, a few things. First, replacing a 1000 word thread with a 10 minute video does not save anyone any time, LOL! Second, the tank is looking much better. Third, your tank needs a huge basketball sized hammer to keep that Elegance company (hint) ;)
 
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