BRS Pukani leaching Phosphates

For the phosphates to reach a level that would actually inhibit skeletal development, they'd first have to reach toxic levels. Phosphate combines with calcium in a 2:3 ratio. This means with a calcium reading at, ideally, 450 ppm, the phosphate would have to be at 300 ppm to prevent all chemical calcification. Even if the phosphate was at, say, 3 ppm, it still allow exactly 99% of possible chemical calcification to occur, assuming an excess of carbonate ions. Obviously, biological calcification is much less effective than ideal chemical calcification, but the point still remains. Phosphates won't measurably inhibit the skeletal calcification of corals. Actually, phosphate is a biological compound that is needed to create the tissues of coral, so a total lack of it would prevent coral growth. The same thing happens with nitrates, although it's calcification prevention point is at 900 with a calcium reading of 450 ppm. Once again, nitrates are even needed by SPS corals for the living tissue, and a lack of nitrate would result in all corals dieing. Obviously, the coral would die from either nitrate or phosphate poisoning before either theoretical zero-calcification point could be reached, however.

Keep in mind that this is thought out by a very tired high school student who has only taken one year of chemistry classes. All the same, the principle is true: although the phosphate released by the BRS Pukani Rock is enough to fuel cyanobacterial and algal growth, it is not at a high enough level to prevent calcification in any measurable way.
 
For the phosphates to reach a level that would actually inhibit skeletal development, they'd first have to reach toxic levels. Phosphate combines with calcium in a 2:3 ratio. This means with a calcium reading at, ideally, 450 ppm, the phosphate would have to be at 300 ppm to prevent all chemical calcification. Even if the phosphate was at, say, 3 ppm, it still allow exactly 99% of possible chemical calcification to occur, assuming an excess of carbonate ions. Obviously, biological calcification is much less effective than ideal chemical calcification, but the point still remains. Phosphates won't measurably inhibit the skeletal calcification of corals. Actually, phosphate is a biological compound that is needed to create the tissues of coral, so a total lack of it would prevent coral growth. The same thing happens with nitrates, although it's calcification prevention point is at 900 with a calcium reading of 450 ppm. Once again, nitrates are even needed by SPS corals for the living tissue, and a lack of nitrate would result in all corals dieing. Obviously, the coral would die from either nitrate or phosphate poisoning before either theoretical zero-calcification point could be reached, however.

Keep in mind that this is thought out by a very tired high school student who has only taken one year of chemistry classes. All the same, the principle is true: although the phosphate released by the BRS Pukani Rock is enough to fuel cyanobacterial and algal growth, it is not at a high enough level to prevent calcification in any measurable way.

If what you were saying is true, why is it when phosphates reach .1ppm corals strowing (sps specificaly) and then they get in the .2 range they brown out? Phosphates are needed in very trace amounts (as the article states, less than .005 ppm), but we know even from personal experience that it takes FAR less concentration than your statement says to notice huge changes in coral growth and color.
 
48 hrs of your skimmer off will be fine. I've done it with every tank i've had and had nothing stressed or losses. Except the slime.

You're saying that you've dosed red-slime remover without the airstone? Not me man, that scares me too much.
 
I need to track down an airpump, airline and airstone. This hobby is draining my finances and I'm already poor. :mad2:

You can get a little mini airpump, tube and stone for under $15 at petsmart. It's good to have because you will ineveitably at some future point in this hobby need to use red-slime remover again.
 
You can get a little mini airpump, tube and stone for under $15 at petsmart. It's good to have because you will ineveitably at some future point in this hobby need to use red-slime remover again.

+1 or waltmart :p

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
What didn't occur to me was that I can also use my skimmer as the aerator, by just removing the collection cup and letting it skim over. Victor, don't worry about bringing the air pump over.
 
If what you were saying is true, why is it when phosphates reach .1ppm corals strowing (sps specificaly) and then they get in the .2 range they brown out? Phosphates are needed in very trace amounts (as the article states, less than .005 ppm), but we know even from personal experience that it takes FAR less concentration than your statement says to notice huge changes in coral growth and color.

As I said, before the phosphates can stop calcification, they'd reach a level that would be toxic even to fish, let alone corals.
 
As I said, before the phosphates can stop calcification, they'd reach a level that would be toxic even to fish, let alone corals.

You just repeating your original statement in no way explains this situation lol. If this is true, how do you explain sps corals browning out at .25ppm? Everyone with sps on this forum has experienced this issue.

I'm not saying you're wrong. To completely stop calcification entirely, the concentrations would have to be very high.

However, we all know that to prohibit growth they don't have to be much higher than .1, and to brown out soft tissues, we all know from experience anything .2 and over is dangerous.

If you run sps, I'd love to see your corals after a week or so of phosphates at .2 or more. Actually, I wouldn't, cause I don't want people to lose their creatures, but you know what I mean lol.
 
Here's an article about it...

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

One important issue relating to elevated phosphate in reef aquaria has to do with the inhibition of calcification by phosphate and phosphate-containing organics. Phosphate is known to inhibit the precipitation of calcium carbonate from seawater.2-4 The presence of phosphate in the water also decreases calcification in corals, such as Pocillopora damicornis5 and entire patch reefs.6 This inhibition is likely related to the presence of phosphate in the extracytoplasmic calcifying fluid (ECF), where calcification takes place in corals7, and on the growing crystal's surface. Exactly how the phosphate gets into the ECF isn't well understood.


Figure 3. The chemical structure of the organophosphate "etidronate," shown in a fully protonated form.
This inhibition of calcification takes place at concentrations frequently attained in reef aquaria, and may begin at levels below those detectable by hobby test kits. For example, one research group found that long-term enrichment of phosphate (0.19 ppm; maintained for three hours per day) on a natural patch reef on the Great Barrier Reef inhibited overall coral calcification by 43%.6 A second team found effects in several Acropora species at similar concentrations.8

Organic phosphate and phosphonate inhibitors of calcification have also been studied and probably work by a similar mechanism. Etidronate, a bisphosphonate that is used to treat osteoporosis (Figure 3), caused a 36% inhibition of calcification in Stylophora pistillata at 2 ppm, and stopped it completely (99%) at 100 ppm, while photosynthesis was not impacted at these, and higher, concentrations (indicating it is not a general toxin).9
 
Walt or anyone that can help I have sum Eco dry rock I'm going to be using. How can I treat it before I put it in my tank?
 
I've always used it without air stones as well and never had a problem. I think the power heads are enough to aerate the water. Funny because I dosed Red slime remover last night and for the first time I am using an air stone. I figured just for the heck of it. It really works though.
 
Here's an article about it...

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

One important issue relating to elevated phosphate in reef aquaria has to do with the inhibition of calcification by phosphate and phosphate-containing organics. Phosphate is known to inhibit the precipitation of calcium carbonate from seawater.2-4 The presence of phosphate in the water also decreases calcification in corals, such as Pocillopora damicornis5 and entire patch reefs.6 This inhibition is likely related to the presence of phosphate in the extracytoplasmic calcifying fluid (ECF), where calcification takes place in corals7, and on the growing crystal's surface. Exactly how the phosphate gets into the ECF isn't well understood.


Figure 3. The chemical structure of the organophosphate "etidronate," shown in a fully protonated form.
This inhibition of calcification takes place at concentrations frequently attained in reef aquaria, and may begin at levels below those detectable by hobby test kits. For example, one research group found that long-term enrichment of phosphate (0.19 ppm; maintained for three hours per day) on a natural patch reef on the Great Barrier Reef inhibited overall coral calcification by 43%.6 A second team found effects in several Acropora species at similar concentrations.8

Organic phosphate and phosphonate inhibitors of calcification have also been studied and probably work by a similar mechanism. Etidronate, a bisphosphonate that is used to treat osteoporosis (Figure 3), caused a 36% inhibition of calcification in Stylophora pistillata at 2 ppm, and stopped it completely (99%) at 100 ppm, while photosynthesis was not impacted at these, and higher, concentrations (indicating it is not a general toxin).9

I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.
I will not do midnight bio-chemistry.


Detention here sucks....
 
I've always used it without air stones as well and never had a problem. I think the power heads are enough to aerate the water. Funny because I dosed Red slime remover last night and for the first time I am using an air stone. I figured just for the heck of it. It really works though.

Well, I have one so I'll keep using it. With my luck i'd crash the tank if I stop using it
 
Stay away from the Fuel unless you have a very low nutrient system, that's what I heard from a manufactor's rep.
Hopefully this doesn't take too long to run its course!!

You also might want to look into a better GFO, like RowaPhos.

+1 on the RowaPhos
 
I started Chemiclean treatment yesterday and within a few hours the tank was clear of cyano. Imemdiately after dosing the tank, I could easily see why they skimmer needs to be turned off. It foams up like crazy and 12 hours later it still is foaming. I checked the tank this morning and there is no sign of cyano. I'll leave the tank as is for another day as recommened and do a 20% water change. It still doesn't fish the issue with the BRS leaching PO2 but at least there is no cyano to bug my coral.
 
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